Curse

Jetdoc · Jan 16, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

This could fit into many different forums (seeing that it is a PvE/PvP strategy topic, could be considered a Q&A or a build discussion, etc.), so I'll post it here and see where it winds up.

Everyone knows that 1 pip of energy regeneration equals 0.333 energy per second. There are one-handed weapons and offhands that allow +15 energy at the cost of 1 pip of energy degeneration.

Now, there ARE one-handed items that give a maximum energy bonus of +5 energy (some of which are conditional, some aren't like the HoD sword and the fire wand outside of Nolani).

So, the question is - are these energy degeneration items worth it?

Doing the calculation, it will take the normal caster (without any buffs) 45 seconds to recover that +15 energy using one pip of energy regeneration. However, since there are +5 energy items available, it seems that you should only compare that energy bonus to the incremental +10 energy you would receive from the item.

That would say that it would take the normal caster 30 seconds to recover that +10 energy. So, am I right in concluding that:

1. You should only use energy degeneration items if you expect a battle to last less than 30 seconds OR
2. You have a means that will restore your energy back to the maximum amount at some point during those 30 seconds.

I am also interested in whether using TWO items that have energy degeneration is a wise decision. Under the two scenarios above, it sounds like it would be.

One strategy I have considered is using +5 energy items and switching off weapon sets to the energy degeneration items once my energy is depleted in the middle of the battle. This at least gives you those two pips of lost energy regeneration for the first portion of the battle, and your 30 seconds to recover the lost energy would start after that point.

Zakarr · Jan 16, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I would use +15 -1 reg energy items in fast battles where you just burst everything to enemy and they all die before your energy bar hits zero. Those can be used also as emergency backup if you need quick +15 or +30 energy but after you have consumed it, number zero will remain long on your energy bar and you will pray that no one has Mind Wrack.

These items are good also if you have additional energy regeneration via some skills like Blood Is Power, Blood Ritual, Ether Lord, etc.

There is weapon sets so you don't have to wear them all the time. At least casters should always carry these in their weapon set.

{integral} · Jan 16, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

number zero will remain long on your energy bar and you will pray that no one has Mind Wrack.

This is not the case: Mind Wrack triggers when energy REACHES zero - it will never trigger if one's energy is at zero when it is cast, and remains there or is regained for the full 20 seconds.

Rafe · Jan 16, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

I would use +15 -1 reg energy items in fast battles where you just burst everything to enemy and they all die before your energy bar hits zero. Those can be used also as emergency backup if you need quick +15 or +30 energy but after you have consumed it, number zero will remain long on your energy bar and you will pray that no one has Mind Wrack.

These items are good also if you have additional energy regeneration via some skills like Blood Is Power, Blood Ritual, Ether Lord, etc.

There is weapon sets so you don't have to wear them all the time. At least casters should always carry these in their weapon set.

Necros are perfect for the +15 -1 items because they have built in energy management.
On the other hand, eles already get a ton of extra energy, they should save the regen for huge spells, exhaustion, etc.

Carinae · Jan 16, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

There is another reason to use the 15/-1 items, and it's related to #2 above:

It increases a MM's energy pool.

During a heated battle, with say two dozen minions active, the larger pool allow you to absorb Soul Reaping spikes (multiple simultaneous deaths) with less wasted energy.

You need to balance your casting against SR. Sometimes, you need to burn large amounts of energy very quickly to keep your pool from overflowing. To that end, an increased pool can buy you enough time to get a spell off before overflow happens.

DeanBB · Jan 16, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Using the big energy -regen items also works for a ranger/necromancer touch attacker as the high expertise (15) will reduce the cost of all of the skills so that any normal battle will not drain their energy. Swap to another slot to regen after the battle though.

For normal casters I generally prefer to manage energy with the +4 pips of regen but have run with a -1 at times.

Phades · Jan 16, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

1. You should only use energy degeneration items if you expect a battle to last less than 30 seconds OR
2. You have a means that will restore your energy back to the maximum amount at some point during those 30 seconds.

If the fight is over in 30s, having the extra energy it provides is pretty meaningless. Generally speaking efficiency combined with regeneration is greater than pool size. There is only one profession where the actual pool size matters. All the skills are eliete and conditional comparisons between active pool sizes. This profession is the elementalist. The profession innately has a greater pool size than other professions, provided skill points are allotted into the energy storage attribute. Considering the questionable skills under energy storage, it could be argued a few different ways, but the most important being the conditional skills based upon pool size can not be used in conjunction with the energy management skills under energy storage. This makes one aspect of a grossly inefficient profession even more so. Even so, the extra energy pool gained via items like this are really only neccacary as providing a buffer for exhaustion to wear off and create an energy reserve for emergencies. In which case, for your 30s battle example, the actual item in question is rather meaningless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I am also interested in whether using TWO items that have energy degeneration is a wise decision. Under the two scenarios above, it sounds like it would be.

Depending on the situation, it could quickly cripple the character if a heavy casting situation is required. If you actually needed +30 energy and dumped all of it in under 30s, the character would be largely useless for a period far longer than the time gained casting with the additional items as the character is forced to regain the lost extra energy first if switching between focus items. Again, this situation really only applies to a couple professions with specific high reuse skill combinations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

One strategy I have considered is using +5 energy items and switching off weapon sets to the energy degeneration items once my energy is depleted in the middle of the battle. This at least gives you those two pips of lost energy regeneration for the first portion of the battle, and your 30 seconds to recover the lost energy would start after that point.

You are still required to regain the extra energy that the other focus item provided. For example an elementalist who used both focus items to gain +30e and for whatever reason used ether prodigy to recover energy and placed his energy total at 0 after casting prodigy. If the character switched back to the other set of items to normalize energy gain, the 10 pips of energy regen would have to cover the 30e deficit first before moving back into the positive numbers.

Siliconwafer · Jan 16, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

For monks, +15/-1 items are pretty crucial, and improve your monking so much. If you go through your normal energy pool, you can switch to a +15/-1 or a +30/-2 slot to cast an essential spell, then switch back to your +4 regen slot. You might end up with 0 energy, but it doesn't matter, as you effectively have +30 energy, you're just not 'showing it' as such. So, it allows you, in theory, to geve +30 energy, but 4 pips of regen, as you're on the +4 regen slots when you're not casting.
It's the best way to break out of energy denial, or to get off that OoB that you might not have had then energy to cast otherwise, or to cope with a surge in dps from an enemy team.

Warskull · Jan 16, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

+15/-1 Items have a place if you know how to use them. However if you keep your +15/-1 item out all the time you are probably just a terrible player. They function as a secondary energy pool. You shouldn't even bother taking it out until you have burnt all your original energy pool. At that point if you need energy you can temporarily swap to a +15/-1 to buy you some time for a critical moment. You can then swap back to regen. However it is important to note that you will be unable to cast without swapping back to the +15/-1 for a brief period.

Remember unless you actually delve into that +15 extra energy the focus is doing nothing for you except costing you energy.

Carinae · Jan 16, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Yea, there is a trick you can do with these items to give you a 'protected' battery that cannot be stolen.

Let's say you have two weapon sets, SetA and SetB.

SetA is a normal set and you have 4 pips of energy regen.
SetB has two 15/-1 items.

You start with SetA and cast until you reach zero energy (for any reason). Then Switch to SetB and expend all that energy also. Now....

Switch back to SetA. You are now at -30 energy, but have 4 pips. Those 4 pips will now 'recharge' SetB, even though SetA is equipped.

Furthermore, the energy in the recharging SetB CANNOT be stolen via ANY method. You can only steal energy above zero.

Not sure if that trick is actually useful, but hey, it's there.

Dave83 · Jan 17, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I use +15 -1 items after I am out of energy from my normal set. If I need more energy i will then switch (there is a slight delay from switching weapons but it doesnt have a great effect on performance.

These items i have also found are usefull for rolling off up to four rebirths non stop. This is only when shit hits the fan, but its usefull in FoW with pickups.

Lexar · Jan 17, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I use one of those on my warrior when I'm farming, bonetti's gives you plenty of energy back anyway. 55 energy warrior

Kinda like the 55 hp monk

eom · Jan 17, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Yea, there is a trick you can do with these items to give you a 'protected' battery that cannot be stolen.

Let's say you have two weapon sets, SetA and SetB.

SetA is a normal set and you have 4 pips of energy regen.
SetB has two 15/-1 items.

You start with SetA and cast until you reach zero energy (for any reason). Then Switch to SetB and expend all that energy also. Now....

Switch back to SetA. You are now at -30 energy, but have 4 pips. Those 4 pips will now 'recharge' SetB, even though SetA is equipped.

Furthermore, the energy in the recharging SetB CANNOT be stolen via ANY method. You can only steal energy above zero.

Not sure if that trick is actually useful, but hey, it's there.

it's very useful.

my w/n always has his en sucked dry by the mergoyles, but because I use weapon sets as mentioned by several previous posters, I always have an untouchable reserve of en that they can't get at to heal myself with, or whatever.
I don't need much, but 0 sux.

(+ the bonetti factor -- as previously mentioned)